For our last book talk of the month, we speak to Dr. Ward, our superintendent of both campuses. Dr. Ward has recently published a new book titled Tales from the Patch, and today he talks to us about soul-searching. Enjoy!
Rebekah Loconte: All right. So can you tell me about the book A Kingdom Called Desire?
David Ward: Sure. So this book’s written by Rick McKinley, who is a pastor in Portland, Oregon. He was the pastor of the church that my wife and I attended for quite a few years while we were living there. A friend of ours had designed the cover. I found his sermons had already started to really impact my view of God. It’s one thing to say a pastor can impact your theology, but it’s another to say a pastor can impact your relationship with God. And he did. So the reason why it’s called A Kingdom Called Desire is because the book states that you have to be incredibly clear with yourself and with God on what your deepest desires are. That, then, opens doors to a relationship with God.
RL: Interesting. Okay, so before we dig into the book a little bit, the cover strikes me as something that I might overlook; I would just look at the title and ignore that image. So talk to me about what’s striking on the cover.
DW: So, I think what is captured on the cover is the circle. It’s dark with tiny little bits of light and then a bunch of specks shooting out from it. And I think the concept in the book that comes out almost right away is that for many of us, it’s really, really hard for us to get in touch with our deepest desires. It’s easier to catch the surface ones. But why need to go deeper and ask, what is motivating this and that, and be honest before God about those desires.
RL: Yeah.
DW: That’s a harder thing to get at. And so the cover is this nebulous, abstract item that’s tricky to get a hold of. And it makes you look at it and ask, What is that? What do I do with this blob? And that’s kind of what McKinley is saying: it’s very difficult for us humans to really know what our deeper desires are.
RL: Okay. Does the book talk about why it’s difficult? Are we not self-critical enough? Like, Socrates says the unexamined life is not worth living. So is he asking us to examine ourselves before we bring our petitions to God?
DW: Good question. He encourages spending time sitting with desires and asking, what’s going on there? What is causing that? And what he drills over and over again is that we’re made as humans to ultimately desire to be in relationship with the one who knows us. Therefore, some of our addictions, some of our whatever-they-are, are often things that are taking place at those deeper levels. And so he’s saying, go in and figure out what’s going on in there. Or you don’t have to figure it out. It’s more about bringing those to God and saying, Lord, I want to work with you. I want to find out why I have this. And some of them are beautiful and pure desires. And so it’s about being called back to this close relationship with God and figuring those things out together with Him. For example, he talks about a canyon and he says, I see Jesus across the canyon. And Jesus is asking me to walk across the canyon. But I don’t want to go across the canyon. I don’t want to face that canyon. But he’s telling me I’ve got to come across the canyon. And so he’s saying he finds a tension between what he wants. He wants protection and safety and assurance that nothing bad is going to happen to me. So he doesn’t want to cross the canyon but he goes there and then he talks about what God does when we raise those things with him.
RL: Okay. So it sounds a bit like Freud, where you’re sort of like analyzing the self, maybe even unconscious desires and bringing them to the surface to unpack them, to look at them.
DW: Yeah. That for sure is there.
RL: And it sounds like you need to identify your idols of worship, maybe too.
DW: Good, because, yeah, he actually goes there, too. And some of his books are connected, so there’s another book that he’s written called This Beautiful Mess. And that title, I think, explains a lot of his own view. He recognizes the mess that we live in and the humanity we live in. But the beauty of God’s calling and God’s making of us through it. So, yes, there’s profound self-introspection, but the introspection is always done with the recognition of what Jesus has already accomplished. You’re never left—at least, I was not ever left—at the end of a chapter going, “I’m done for. I’m a lousy Christian. I’m terrible.” It was never that. It was always in tremendous hope. Always in tremendous hope! And I think that is McKinley’s power as an author. And that’s why it was sort of life-changing for me.
RL: I see.
DW: I think most of us in our lives have certain broken records that we listen to. And whether those are records from our past, records from our unconscious self, or what others have said about us, whatever it is. And what this book has done for me is it’s helped stop the broken record.
RL: Okay.
DW: And it’s most definitely allowed me to challenge thoughts or concerns or worries that may rise in my mind. And so, in that sense, it is an equipping and tool-based book. Without being a “how-to” manual. It’s an unintentional self-help book. It didn’t set out to do that, and yet it does that.
RL: That’s awesome. Okay, thank you. What’s next on your reading list?
DW: Next on my reading list. I’ve got lots I’m reading but Sacred Rhythms by Ruth Haley Barton is foremost.
RL: Okay, well, thank you so much for your time, Dr. Ward.
DW: Thank you. It was fun.
